"No, you can't have a Fiero. They're unsafe"

"Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To" (murdersofa)
10/20/2014 at 11:07 • Filed to: None

My dad is of the opinion that one of the safest cars ever made is still unsafe because we live in an area surrounded by one-star-crash-safety-rating brotrucks and 'burbans.

His requirements for a car are:

Big

Good fuel economy

FWD/AWD

Cheap (under $4000 used)

Reliable

"practical"

...

Meanwhile I want something with a half-decent power to weight ratio, at LEAST mediocre handling, and a stick. Gotta have a stick. Automatics are quickly wearing thin on me.

So basically the only things that fit his criteria are Pontiacs, buicks, Mercedes, and Volkswagen.

None of which can be had with a manual, except for possibly a Passat.

DISCUSSION (100)

Haimatox > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To
10/20/2014 at 11:08

I don't think that ¨big¨ and ¨good fuel economy¨ is possible.

Mattbob > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To
10/20/2014 at 11:10

that reminds me of how my dad made me buy an SUV when I was buying a car, but he still talks about how cool the THREE pintos he had when he was young were. :-/

Mattbob > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To
10/20/2014 at 11:11

why no rwd????

crowmolly > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To
10/20/2014 at 11:11

Fiero one of the safest cars ever? Huh?

Jeremy H formerly Kalakaboooom > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To
10/20/2014 at 11:12

Sounds to me like he knows what you wanna do with your car, and hes actively trying to prevent that.

The FWD/AWD and "big", requirements are a dead giveaway on that one.

My dad was the same way, told me a lot of stories of shit he used to do in his 69 Grand Prix

44444444444 > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To
10/20/2014 at 11:12

Go Volvo V70R/S60R... AWD, manual, Volvo, 300HP. A lot of them around 5-7k. Just be advised they require some damn expensive parts.

Or if you can live without a manual but not AWD, 2004-2007 XC70 with an autobox...

Or if you can live without AWD, a manual 2004-2007 S60/V70 FWD.

Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To > Mattbob
10/20/2014 at 11:12

My dad was a benefactor of the cheap gas era, owning four cars with huge-ass powerful V8s, something I can never do because gas and insurance would be too much.

Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To > Haimatox
10/20/2014 at 11:13

His 4000lb Volkswagen station wagon gets 40mpg because lolTDI

Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell. > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To
10/20/2014 at 11:14

I wouldnt say theyre one of the safest cars ever made, modern cars are too advanced. They were pretty safe for the era though. I can see why hes worried about the bro trucks and stuff (I'm glad most cars are smallish here) but the size of your car isnt going to help much. Even a non bro'd out f150 would get a bumper through the windshield if it hit a lifted truck.

Money Hustard > crowmolly
10/20/2014 at 11:14

Yeah... not sure where that's coming from...

 V8 Rustler > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To
10/20/2014 at 11:15

Subaru Outback.

Kinja'd!!!

Convert it to RWD without your dad knowing and let the hooning start.

Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To > Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell.
10/20/2014 at 11:15

Pretty much. Though I'm not comparing the Fiero to anything made after 2005 anyway, since I could never afford something that new.

Coty > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To
10/20/2014 at 11:15

>GLi

Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To > 44444444444
10/20/2014 at 11:15

My dad mentioned yesterday that Volvos "aren't that reliable". That plus expensive parts knocks them right out.

A V70R would be badass, though. Difficult to find around here though.

Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To > Jeremy H formerly Kalakaboooom
10/20/2014 at 11:17

The FWD/AWD requirement is because it snows and ices a shitload during the winter and he thinks anything RWD will be unmanageable (yet my sister drives a 99 Silverado 1500 with an open diff).

The "big" requirement is because safety.

Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To > crowmolly
10/20/2014 at 11:18

One of the first cars to use a spaceframe design, rated the second-highest for safety in the 80s, and I'm not sure if it has been surpassed that many times since then and 2005.

Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To > Mattbob
10/20/2014 at 11:18

It ices a lot in the winter here and he thinks it RWD = sliding sideways into a telephone pole, old woman crossing the street, or a bus full of orphans.

MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To
10/20/2014 at 11:19

How about a Fusion?

Mid-size, FWD or AWD stick available.

reliable

good MPG

Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To > V8 Rustler
10/20/2014 at 11:20

That would be pretty ideal if they weren't so hideously expensive around here :/

Jeremy H formerly Kalakaboooom > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To
10/20/2014 at 11:20

My wife picked her Chrysler 300 because it was big and she thought it was super safe because of that.

You can still have fun in a FWD car though, this previous winterpocalypse I was rolling around in a 1986 Honda Accord with Blizzaks, thing weighs like 1900 pounds.

Cherry_man1 > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To
10/20/2014 at 11:20

Focus ST?

Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To > Coty
10/20/2014 at 11:20

Jettas are too small.

Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To > MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner
10/20/2014 at 11:21

Waay too expensive, unless you're talking about the older ones with the miserable styling and interiors.

Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell. > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To
10/20/2014 at 11:21

Just watched a Fiero crash test out of curiosity and damn that thing is pretty tough. It does almost as well as my car and theres about 20 years between them. Try showing your dad that maybe?

44444444444 > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To
10/20/2014 at 11:22

Compared to a Passat? They're reliable as long as you stay FWD, manual, and LPT. Also, they are everywhere.

crowmolly > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To
10/20/2014 at 11:25

I have personally watched 2 of them burn.

Safe in the 80's isn't the same as safe now. Hell, my old Camaro used to tout it's safe "padded dash" and "nonreflective interior". The Fiero had great marks when it was new, and that was almost 30 years ago.

Granted, if you bought a Fiero it would still be all kinds of mid-engined awesome (as long as you aren't too big) just make sure you take it for what it is.

My citroen won't start > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To
10/20/2014 at 11:30

How about this?

http://stlouis.craigslist.org/cto/4669693110…

Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To
10/20/2014 at 11:30

It weighs that much?

Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To
10/20/2014 at 11:31

240 Wagon. RWD, safest car ever made, and they are nearly bulletproof. Oh, and you can buy 2 decent ones for your budget.

Logansteno: Bought a VW? > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To
10/20/2014 at 11:32

90-something Honda Accord?

I dunno if the manual and V6 could be paired together, but if they could be that would be pretty good.

OPPOsaurus WRX > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To
10/20/2014 at 11:35

WRX or maybe an older RS . AWD safe, stick, quick and if you get the hatch, practical

MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To
10/20/2014 at 11:38

I was talking about the older ones, they aren't as miserable as you'd think.

Though I went for the (I believe) automatic only upgrade in the Milan.

Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To > OPPOsaurus WRX
10/20/2014 at 11:39

Isnt insurance pretty insane for those?

Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To > Logansteno: Bought a VW?
10/20/2014 at 11:40

I've considered it, though there are *no* manual Accords on CL right now, and the stigma around the name is a bit "meh"

ZiptieMcBumper > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To
10/20/2014 at 11:41

He's just trying to steer you away from the Iron Duke. Imagine if some maniac was following you; you'd never be able to outrun them. Even if they were on foot.

Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To > Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies
10/20/2014 at 11:41

Pretty close

Sportwägen, Driver Of The Red Sportwagen > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To
10/20/2014 at 11:41

MK4 or 5 GTI?

deekster_caddy > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To
10/20/2014 at 11:42

If he's driving a VW daily then Volvos are "reliable" (in quotes) too. Most cars newer than 1997 are going to be "reliable" if they aren't whipped.

ShelbyRacer78-Fusion Modifier > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To
10/20/2014 at 11:42

I found this:

https://newhaven.craigslist.org/pts/4707130052…

Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To > My citroen won't start
10/20/2014 at 11:43

Oh my god that looks amazing

Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To > crowmolly
10/20/2014 at 11:44

I'm 5'5" and my friend has a supercharged V6 powertrain to put in a Fiero if I got one, so it would be an absolute kick in the pants of a car.

Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To
10/20/2014 at 11:44

That's more than my 4Runner, damn.

Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To > Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell.
10/20/2014 at 11:45

Mass trumps any safety info I could show him.

Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To > Cherry_man1
10/20/2014 at 11:45

If I had the money, yeah, though he probably considers that ";too small" as well

My citroen won't start > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To
10/20/2014 at 11:46

3 grand, big, manual, handles great, previous owner fixed a lot of shit but still a fun car to work on. I don't know how far it is from you but I like it haha.

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To
10/20/2014 at 11:46

This sounds like "Buick Century". It is what it is. Not a terrible car, really, except for the auto thing. If that's so much of a sticking point, go Pontiac Grand Prix. Same car as the Cutlass in the fifth gen, and Century in the sixth, but can be found with a stick, and if a wagon is a must, get a Century wagon and swap the stick out of a Grand Prix junker into it.

Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To > My citroen won't start
10/20/2014 at 11:48

I'm in Wichita KS so it's a bit of a drive but holy crap that thing looks amazing. ST Louis has an excellent craigslist.

Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To > ShelbyRacer78-Fusion Modifier
10/20/2014 at 11:48

Been considering a Riviera, but the lack of a manual and any handling pedigree is steering me away. I'm sick to death of automatics.

Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To > deekster_caddy
10/20/2014 at 11:49

Yeah, his B5.5 hasn't exactly been a reliability superstar.

Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To > Sportwägen, Driver Of The Red Sportwagen
10/20/2014 at 11:49

waaaaay too small.

Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To > ZiptieMcBumper
10/20/2014 at 11:49

I have a supercharged 3.8l V6 drivetrain ready to swap into one for $350.

Cherry_man1 > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To
10/20/2014 at 11:50

sounds like he's a killjoy

Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell. > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To
10/20/2014 at 11:50

Thats a shame.

jariten1781 > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To
10/20/2014 at 11:51

New Focus is wider and taller than a first gen Mazda 6. Speaking of, you can get a first gen Mazda 6 in sedan, liftback, or wagon all with a manual. They're surprisingly agile. I'd recommend that to try and fit your and your dad's list.

Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To > MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner
10/20/2014 at 11:51

What year are we talking? The mid-2000s ones with the Gillette razor grille?

Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To > Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell.
10/20/2014 at 11:53

I need to find enough hard evidence that a well-built small car would win out against a floppy bro truck in a wreck. He *can* be swayed with enough facts. He might be opinionated, but he's still an engineer.

ZiptieMcBumper > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To
10/20/2014 at 11:53

Never mind, then. He's clearly being unreasonable.

Though I have to say that thinking back to my many close calls while driving a Miata among a sea of bro-trucks... if my kid was of driving age, I'd probably be tempted to say the same thing.

Just tell him you'll put a really tall antenna on it with one of those 76 balls.

gogmorgo - rowing gears in a Grand Cherokee > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To
10/20/2014 at 11:54

If it helps any, a buddy of mine has both a Fiero and an XJ Cherokee. He prefers driving the Fiero in light snow or on ice because of the extra confidence the better weight distribution gives.
Most people associate fwd/awd with safety in inclement weather because of traction advantages when setting out (i.e. you get moving more easily). While this is somewhat reasonable, I personally prefer the greater control a RWD platform gives when you lose traction while actually moving. Case in point, my own Jeep MJ in RWD. I start understeering around a corner, try to slow down with the brake, it doesn't work. I gently push the gas, and drift around it. Same Jeep in 4x4, I start understeering, I hit the brake, it makes things worse. I hit the gas, it also makes things worse. Now, some of the more advanced stability and traction control systems can help with that, particularly those with actual torque vectoring, but that only gets you so far.

Something else I've noticed is that while people in Brotrucks and Burbans may often be asshats on the road, I'm more often endangered by people driving crappy econoboxes because they simply don't care enough about what they're doing.

OPPOsaurus WRX > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To
10/20/2014 at 11:55

probably not for an older one. The hatch is less than a sedan too. Overall i'm not really sure how it compares to other stuff.

Sportwägen, Driver Of The Red Sportwagen > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To
10/20/2014 at 11:56

GLI?

Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To > Cherry_man1
10/20/2014 at 11:57

Literally my whole life. I'm the only person at autocross with a slushbox, and the only person on the FSAE team with a slushbox. I grow tired of it.

Even when I was a little kid and nerf guns were popular, I was stuck with $10 pistols because he refused to allow me anything bigger. By the time I was finally allowed to buy a Longshot or whatever I had it for three weeks before Nerf became passe. After two years of nerf wars, it became passe mere weeks after I finally got a good gun.

Repeat this with Airsoft. (though that was mostly because it took me that long to raise the money to buy a decent gun).

Repeat this with music (was never allowed to listen to disturbed, avenged sevenfold, metallica, or basically any metal because it was "druggie music")

Repeat this with TV shows/ movies (was never allowed to watch movies when they were new for... whatever the fuck reason. Was always four years behind on pop culture).

Ugh.

Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht
10/20/2014 at 12:00

The Century is awful and doesn't deserve to be a Buick. It's a LeSabre with less features, worse build quality, and it's smaller. It's a grand prix with some makeup and a naturally aspirated engine.

The Grand Prix had a manual option? I was not aware of that; I thought that was just the GXP.

Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To > ZiptieMcBumper
10/20/2014 at 12:02

It's not even visibility he is concerned about (I actually doubt that's ever crossed his mind). It's just every time I try to argue the point he says "F=MA" at me till I get flustered and give up.

Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To > gogmorgo - rowing gears in a Grand Cherokee
10/20/2014 at 12:04

Yeah, around here the people that drive like asshats are the people in the compact sports cars and slammed civics and stuff weaving through traffic 3 inches from peoples bumpers.

But he'll just point out some wreck or another that involved a large car and a small car and how dangerous small cars are in a wreck (not before a wreck, not at avoiding a wreck, but IF THEY GET HIT).

My citroen won't start > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To
10/20/2014 at 12:04

Every single SC300 in KS is auto, but they are cheaper.

Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To > Sportwägen, Driver Of The Red Sportwagen
10/20/2014 at 12:04

Still too small. Also, Volkswagen.

MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To
10/20/2014 at 12:04

Yep.

You can even make it look like this:

Kinja'd!!!

Aaron James > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To
10/20/2014 at 12:06

I offered my old 4 door Neon to my nephew for his first car and my Sister won't let him drive it because she thinks it's too small and not safe. No need to argue with her because it's what she wants. I have two boys and I wouldn't let either of them have a Fiero either. Too small and horrible in adverse weather. I drove plenty of them back in the day and honestly they aren't that great unless you get an 88 GT or formula. Until you are old enough to pay your own bills you just have to deal with it, it's part of being a kid. I wanted a Camaro for my first car back in the 90's and I ended up with an 86 Toyota Celica with 92 HP and an automatic. I loved that car though and made many many great memories because of it.

Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell. > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To
10/20/2014 at 12:06

http://www.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3Due…

This isnt bad. Smart vs E class and smart comes off okay.

Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To > My citroen won't start
10/20/2014 at 12:06

Yeah, 99% of the manuals on the local CL are trucks.

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To
10/20/2014 at 12:07

It was early, '87-'93. Therefore, SCIENCE would be required to implement in anything more modern.

I'll grant you the Century is mediocre - but it's dead reliable, and is somewhere solidly in the Venn overlap of most of the things your dad wants. GM W and A bodies just are generally... there. If you take a Century wagon or a Cutlass Cruiser and a junkyard GP with stick and hybridize them, it could be amusing.

Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To > MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner
10/20/2014 at 12:07

Wow, I always thought those were bland cars (still not sold on the head lights/grille) but that looks pretty fantastic.

Sportwägen, Driver Of The Red Sportwagen > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To
10/20/2014 at 12:07

So you want something roughly the size of your Buick?

ShelbyRacer78-Fusion Modifier > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To
10/20/2014 at 12:11

But the blower....

Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To > Sportwägen, Driver Of The Red Sportwagen
10/20/2014 at 12:12

No, I want a Miata or Fiero.

I'm parentally restricted to something the size of my LeSabre.

Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht
10/20/2014 at 12:13

If I had to get another miserable automatic luxobarge I'd get a Buick Riviera 8th-gen or a Buick Park Avenue Ultra, despite the Ultra being *such a good car* a decent-condition low-mileage one is still nearly $10k 11 years later.

Sportwägen, Driver Of The Red Sportwagen > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To
10/20/2014 at 12:14

Taurus SHO? (Early 90's with the Yamaha V6 and 5 speed!)

ZiptieMcBumper > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To
10/20/2014 at 12:15

Well, if that's all he's concerned about, he'd better hope that a Fiero doesn't hit you at 100 mph while you're stationary in your Passat.

Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To > Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell.
10/20/2014 at 12:16

Wow. Were there any injuries to the dummies?

I'm pretty much entirely convinced that luck has 100x more to do with survivability in a crash than safety of the car, honestly.

Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To > Aaron James
10/20/2014 at 12:17

Most of my memories of my car consist of pouring tons of effort into it to make it at least as good as it was when new, and being constantly frustrated by the transmission, constant shit breaking, and understeer.

Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To > ZiptieMcBumper
10/20/2014 at 12:19

"If a train is headed westward at 100mph and a 2003 Buick Park Avenue is at a stop light, how many seconds will it take for buttered toaster strudel?"

Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To > Sportwägen, Driver Of The Red Sportwagen
10/20/2014 at 12:20

I've considered those if they weren't such unicorns (and pre-90s airbags earn them a "not safe" rating from my killjoy parent)

Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To > ShelbyRacer78-Fusion Modifier
10/20/2014 at 12:20

Fiero + Riviera engine = god

twochevrons > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To
10/20/2014 at 12:21

If you go back a generation to the 850R or 850 Turbo, a lot of the expensive weaknesses of the V70/S60 (unreliable electronic throttle modules, fragile AWD systems, fault-prone transmissions) aren't there, but you've still got a properly quick (and very tuneable) low-cost hoonmobile on your hands.

They only ever came with a 4-speed automatic transmission, but unlike the 5-speed auto in the later cars, it's remarkably long-lived, and generally won't give you any trouble. Manual swaps are entirely achievable, but require a remapped ECU because of reasons that I don't entirely understand.

It's not to say that they're 100% reliable, or especially simple cars, but the problems that do remain are well within the abilities and budget of a DIYer. I bought a non-running 850R wagon, resurrected it over the summer, and daily-drive it on a college-student budget. They handle well (although the passive 4-wheel steering gives a slightly disconcerting feel under hard cornering), there's a lot of potential for more power, and they're exceedingly comfortable for highway cruising. And nobody in their right mind would call them unsafe. They're a bit on the thirsty side – mine gets 13-15 MPG around town, thanks to the ever-present temptation to bury my right foot, but on the highway, they'll do closer to 30.

Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell. > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To
10/20/2014 at 12:21

Luck is a big part of it in regards of where the car is hit and things like that, but a safe car does make a huge difference.

Sportwägen, Driver Of The Red Sportwagen > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To
10/20/2014 at 12:22

Mazdaspeed6?

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To
10/20/2014 at 12:22

Mercedes *are* available in stick... if they predate 1980 or so. Problem being, there appears to have been somewhat of a run on the six-cylinders lately, so power + stick + affordable may be hard.

That being the case, you may be stuck with Volvo for stick, which would just be shitty on the "mileage" metric with the right model, and possibly reliability (some models are hit and miss). 240/245 with engine swap is possible, I suppose. Most would run afoul of the AWD/FWD only limit, but some of them have limited slip - my sister had one and it was no problem in snow at all.

Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To > Sportwägen, Driver Of The Red Sportwagen
10/20/2014 at 12:23

For under $4000-$5000?

MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To
10/20/2014 at 12:23

They are lol they can jsut be turned into something fun if you WANT to.

For example a Ford Fusion holds the land speed record for a hyrdrogen fuel cell vehicle

207 mph

It's all what you make of it.

I don't think the Sport was out in the "gilette razor" years lol, but that was awesome.

you could always find a 4 cylinder for cheap and swap in a 3.5L V6 (that's what the MKZ and Fusion Sport came with)

ZiptieMcBumper > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To
10/20/2014 at 12:24

Kinja'd!!!

I Do It For Miatas, NC Owner > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To
10/20/2014 at 12:25

What about Volvo?

Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To > twochevrons
10/20/2014 at 12:26

http://salina.craigslist.org/cto/4667116626…

Not turbo... how slow are the NA engines?

My citroen won't start > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To
10/20/2014 at 12:27

http://kansascity.pt.craigslist.org/ctd/4699062796… How about this?

EDIT: it was sold, dammit.

Sportwägen, Driver Of The Red Sportwagen > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To
10/20/2014 at 12:28

You can usually find them for 8k if you look hard enough...

cheaper if you don't mind salvage and rebuilt titles lol

Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To > My citroen won't start
10/20/2014 at 12:29

Looks really nice. Not as nice as the Lexus, but I likey. Aren't audis notoriously expensive on upkeep though?

My citroen won't start > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To
10/20/2014 at 12:38

Some are, but manuel makes it simpler to maintain and A4s are quite reliable, quattro might be a problem though. Other cars I'd recommend are the Mazda MX6 and Acura Legend Coupe.

JGrabowMSt > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To
10/20/2014 at 12:39

Big and FWD are a really bad combination.

What state are you in, and how much do you hate Neons?

Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To > JGrabowMSt
10/20/2014 at 12:43

I'm in Kansas, and my dad would probably consider a Neon too small (and too Chrysler).

I wouldn't mind. My mum has a PT Cruiser GT with the SRT-4 engine in it, and I think it's a blast.

JGrabowMSt > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To
10/20/2014 at 12:46

A bit far. I have a 5spd Neon that needs to go as soon as I get my wagon back.

They're small, but not that small. I've fit an impressive amount of things in it.

I've put full PA systems in it before. Parts are cheap, and you live in a forgiving area for them.

Jayhawk Jake > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To
10/20/2014 at 12:48

Find that video where they crash a 1955 Bel Air or similar into a 2003 Accord